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erlandish
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Posted: 05-15-2007 04:56 |
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| On the contrary. I'm very much interested in ideas that differ from my own but which also happen to work.
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TylerErickson
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Posted: 05-15-2007 06:18 |
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Boqin wrote:
Its funny I don't remember the topic of this thread being. NOWS YOUR CHANCE TO ASK KAMMAGIC A QUESTION ABOUT THEORY.
FYI, I didn't ask Kammagic anything. I asked Boqin.
T
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gone
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Posted: 05-15-2007 07:23 |
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TylerErickson wrote:
Boqin wrote:
Its funny I don't remember the topic of this thread being. NOWS YOUR CHANCE TO ASK KAMMAGIC A QUESTION ABOUT THEORY.
FYI, I didn't ask Kammagic anything. I asked Boqin.
T
Right Boqin ....wheeww! I almost blew my cover.
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MarcStudentz
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Posted: 05-15-2007 07:37 |
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Tyler,
What is for you the theory that is the most important in all magic ?
The one that is really something fundamental for creating the aspect of magic.
M.
Ps : Boqin, now that your cover is off, please come back as Kammagic.
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TylerErickson
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Posted: 05-15-2007 08:37 |
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Studentz wrote:
What is for you the theory that is the most important in all magic ?
I can't answer that because I don't have a "most important" theory.
To me, (other people's) theory is like a course in psychology. You look at their experience, their observations and then their conclusions. You can determine how "true" you believe the theory to be based on two entirely different modes: you can analyze the accuracy with which you feel the observations and interpretations have been made, or you can go out and implement the theory and see if it gives the expected results.
Each of these approaches has its strengths and weaknesses. I think the idea way of determining a theory's benefits is through a combination of the two.
As I have stated, I am greatly interested in any theory Boqin can provide. There need not be formal names, just concepts that can be applied to magic in general.
At this stage, I think this would not only be helpful, but is necessary in the desire to start from common ground.
What say, B?
T
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gone
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Posted: 05-15-2007 10:07 |
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TylerErickson wrote:
Studentz wrote:
What is for you the theory that is the most important in all magic ?
I can't answer that because I don't have a "most important" theory.
To me, (other people's) theory is like a course in psychology. You look at their experience, their observations and then their conclusions. You can determine how "true" you believe the theory to be based on two entirely different modes: you can analyze the accuracy with which you feel the observations and interpretations have been made, or you can go out and implement the theory and see if it gives the expected results.
Each of these approaches has its strengths and weaknesses. I think the idea way of determining a theory's benefits is through a combination of the two.
As I have stated, I am greatly interested in any theory Boqin can provide. There need not be formal names, just concepts that can be applied to magic in general.
At this stage, I think this would not only be helpful, but is necessary in the desire to start from common ground.
What say, B?
T
I think I will save my ideas for the "book".
THREAD TOPIC
State how important you think magic theory to be, and then say why.
MY ANSWER
It is important to some people. Depends on how you look at magic. If you look at magic formulaically then theories probably will interest you. I look at magic more artistically using technique , presentation and psychology as my creative tools.
...your turn.
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TylerErickson
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Posted: 05-15-2007 10:31 |
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Boqin wrote:
I think I will save my ideas for the "book".
Are you really writing a book?
T
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jmac
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Posted: 05-15-2007 11:22 |
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Boqin wrote: jmac wrote:
RajeshLGov wrote: As in my previous post I feel theory is something like learning from someone elses experience. Why strike two stones when you know you can create fire using a matchstick???? A wise man learns from his experience, the wisest learn from others 
Rajesh,
This was a great anaolgy, Makes so much sense.
kamm, I have talked about Schneider's 5 steps to deception (theory),and how it was applied to matrix.In the blanket dismissal thread. I did this because its was Mr. Schneider's routine and theory. To show how they worked together. If I remember right to said things against it (the routine and the theory) .Same would be true with you and Daryl's thinking. So maybe thats why people are wanting to know where you stand? JMAC
I have no problem learning techniques (Striking a match is a technique not a theory) from other magicians. But a theory is a certain persons way of thinking. That is quite different. I will only be interested in the theory if it is similar to the way I think myself. I bet many of you will find that you will gravitate to theories that are similar to your own way of thinking.
Kamm you twisted my point , My point was not about technique it was about learning from others like Al Schneider and Daryl. Like I said in the post above You made claims against Schneiders routine matrix and his theory.
jmac
Last edited on 05-15-2007 11:44 by jmac
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cosmicplay
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Posted: 05-15-2007 13:53 |
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| Hello.
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RajeshLGov
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Posted: 05-15-2007 17:11 |
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You can waken up a man who is sleeping not one whos pretending to be asleep 
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gone
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Posted: 05-15-2007 19:37 |
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jmac wrote:
Boqin wrote: jmac wrote:
RajeshLGov wrote: As in my previous post I feel theory is something like learning from someone elses experience. Why strike two stones when you know you can create fire using a matchstick???? A wise man learns from his experience, the wisest learn from others
Rajesh,
This was a great anaolgy, Makes so much sense.
kamm, I have talked about Schneider's 5 steps to deception (theory),and how it was applied to matrix.In the blanket dismissal thread. I did this because its was Mr. Schneider's routine and theory. To show how they worked together. If I remember right to said things against it (the routine and the theory) .Same would be true with you and Daryl's thinking. So maybe thats why people are wanting to know where you stand? JMAC
I have no problem learning techniques (Striking a match is a technique not a theory) from other magicians. But a theory is a certain persons way of thinking. That is quite different. I will only be interested in the theory if it is similar to the way I think myself. I bet many of you will find that you will gravitate to theories that are similar to your own way of thinking.
Kamm you twisted my point , My point was not about technique it was about learning from others like Al Schneider and Daryl. Like I said in the post above You made claims against Schneiders routine matrix and his theory.
jmac
You were asking where I stand and I answered you. Rajesh was talking about learning techniques and we are talking about learning theories here. There is quite a difference. My comments on Daryl and Shneider are on a different thread.
Shall I remind you what the topic is here?
THREAD TOPIC
State how important you think magic theory to be, and then say why.
MY ANSWER
It is important to some people. Depends on how you look at magic. If you look at magic formulaically then theories probably will interest you. I look at magic more artistically using technique , presentation and psychology as my creative tools.
...your turn.
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TylerErickson
Wizard
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Posted: 05-15-2007 20:21 |
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Boqin wrote:
If you look at magic formulaically then theories probably will interest you. I look at magic more artistically using technique , presentation and psychology as my creative tools.
Well lets see...I use technique, presentation and psychology as creative tools in my work; clearly I must also be "artistic."
Your turn...
Are you really writing a book?
T
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gone
Magician
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Posted: 05-15-2007 20:59 |
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TylerErickson wrote:
Boqin wrote:
If you look at magic formulaically then theories probably will interest you. I look at magic more artistically using technique , presentation and psychology as my creative tools.
Well lets see...I use technique, presentation and psychology as creative tools in my work; clearly I must also be "artistic."
Your turn...
Are you really writing a book?
T
We all have artistic and formulaic qualities. Just some people are more dominant in one then the other. Yes a book may be possible I just have to finish the DVD which I am in the middle of filming right now.
Instead of just contridicting what I have to say and asking me questions that don't pertain to this thread why not answer the question that this thread asks.
Just answer the question, state your opinion and this thread will stay on topic and run a lot smoother.
If you have personal questions for me then PM or eMail me .
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TylerErickson
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Posted: 05-15-2007 22:06 |
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Boqin wrote:
Instead of just contridicting what I have to say and asking me questions that don't pertain to this thread why not answer the question that this thread asks.
Just answer the question, state your opinion and this thread will stay on topic and run a lot smoother.
I ask you questions because it seems you like to talk. It is easier to do this than explain a concept and then deal with you claiming I am "pushing" things off on you.
To answer the question regarding the importance of theory, yes I do think it is important, but that answer is less important than this observation: Several members of MVD have been introduced to fundament theory and found it to be of great use to them. They say it "just makes sense." It was not forced on them, only offered as concepts.
Would you tell them they are wasting their time?
You say my questions don't pertain to the thread, but I think it is a shame that I have to point out the significance of your (possible) book. Because, if you do write it, you may also include your performance approach, or to use another word, theory.
If I read your book, adopted your approach, and it worked for me, then I would have benefited from your experience.
Perhaps though, your book would contain only tricks, and no semblance of the man who performed them. I think that would short-change the reader from what is possibly the most valuable part you have to offer.
I don't think you care if this thread says on topic or if it runs smoothly. The fact that you don't edit your quotes paints a rather unflattering picture as to your level of concern.
Lastly, I will make a point that I would have liked never to have mentioned.
I don't care if you never, ever, in your entire lifetime, use magic theory to help you perform. I have always believed it is up to the individual to choose if they think a theory has merit.
I do care that a full-grown man reincarnated himself as a child and is continually dismissive of things he (by his own admission) has little to no knowledge of.
I just don't understand what would make a person say some of the things you do. It makes me wonder if a 15 year old Chinese boy somehow fooled me into thinking he was an adult.
T
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Aramis
Illusionist
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Posted: 05-15-2007 22:28 |
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Boqin, I hope you realize these last few posts you added are PURELY magic theory.. I mean, like you yourself mentionned, it seems like you could write a book with all these ideas, theorems and concepts.
But here is where I am really confused. According to your statements, I shouldn't be reading these threads, because they concern YOUR perspective of magic. According to your statements there is nothing that I could learn as a magician from reading what you have to say, because it's just theory, it's just YOUR views on magic.
I hope I'm making my point well here, but my argument here is that if you think theory is useless and a waste of time, why OH why, do you waste so much of YOUR time depicting your theories and opinions? It is somewhat contradictory isn't it?
But Boqin, just so my position is clear, I don't think you are wrong. But I think you are defending a position that is not exactly yours. I am 95% certain that if you actually sat on your pride and took the time to read Ortiz' "Strong Magic", you would probably tell yourself "This book is brilliant" just like we are.
I encourage you to correct me here, but I THINK your true opinion on the subject is not that "Theory is useless" but that "There are many things that are more important for a magician than "theory", which I think we can all agree with.
I remember the times I watched your videos, several years ago when I was just getting into magic Boqin, I remember how they made me feel, in my mind it is clear that you are an excellent magician and that if you say "You can be a great magician without having studied theory books", well you seem to be a living confirmation of that statement. But I can't agree that Theory can't help you as a magician and that only performance and experience will improve your magic.
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