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dave0585
Magician
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Posted: 07-03-2009 19:31 |
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I spent a lot of time on MVD about 3 or 5 years ago, uploading my poor performances and getting feedback and attempting to improve my magic. And the site was so busy with so many people willing to criticise, help, discuss, and the site was generally buzzing.
Since then I spent a lot of time practicing, learning and becoming a better (now professional) magician. And I thought I would come back because I believe I am in a much better position to help the new magicians now, and generally join in the conversations I used to know nothing about.
But I have spent the past two days on here and quite frankly it's dead. The last forum post was like a month ago, and most people just seem to watch videos, without leaving feedback. And there is just generally no sense of a community any more. And I am not positive but I am sure there used to be more regular competitions. What happened MVD admins?
Here are some Ideas I thought may be cool for the site to help generate more participation from members.
1. More regular competitions covering a wider range of magic, Maybe you could offer some kind of competition for original magic with the incentive that you will publish a DVD or something, maybe you could contact one of the other websites (ellusionist, penguin, theory11) or someone and work up some kind of deal with them.
2. Promotion of members who participate more.
3. Some kind of incentive for people who participate in leaving feedback and forum posts regularly.
4. Maybe some kind of secure area where experienced magicians can go and post tutorials, and discuss tricks in depth.
5. Attempt to draw in more magicians, dealing with some of the online shops (advertising deals etc), Maybe once a month offering a pay-to-enter competition, with a really great prize for the top 3 places.
6. Posting a magician of the week on the homepage with a nice little story about them and a cool picture for the best upload or something.
7. Also maybe some tutorials and Ideas by other members on filming yourself, where the best place to go is, what equipment to use, how to convert the video best for online viewing and other technical issues, as well as what you should look for before you upload your video to prevent revelation of magic and to ensure the maximum impact on viewers.
Well there are some of my ideas, it would be nice to see at least one of them to come into action. I am willing to help I can code html and CSS when I have time.
Regards
Dave
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tapmagoo
Conjuror
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Posted: 07-04-2009 13:55 |
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All I heard in the past after similar requests were crickets...
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spadesy
Sorcerer
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Posted: 07-04-2009 17:42 |
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8. Catering.
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TylerErickson
Wizard
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Posted: 07-06-2009 12:59 |
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dave0585,
I have no idea how bad things need to get in order for the Powers That Be (hereafter PTB) to care.
Much like you, I have made lists of suggestions I thought would help energize the base. Sadly the PTB seem to be deaf to any of the requests of its members. Once members started to realize there was no upkeep happening in the forums area, attendance slowly dwindled down to what you see here.
In fact, it has been a looooong time since Andrew (the human embodiment of the PTB) has even responded to such criticism. You know it's bad when you can openly tell someone their site SUX and they don't even bother to reply to the thread.
It makes me sad that this happened, because I, like you, remember the promise this site had to offer. It might just be too late to try to do anything about it. At least, not without great effort from the PTBA (Powers That Be Absent).
T
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GlennLawrence
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Posted: 07-06-2009 16:23 |
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I have been here since the beginning and I'm not sure what to make of the current situation. Part of it seems to be what you guys are mentioning in terms of management letting the forums "wither on the vine" so to speak. But another issue could just be that many members just moved on for other reasons. Yes the PTB can make changes and do certain things but if the members want the forums to be active, they have to post and make it so. Remember this site has already been around for what amounts to an eternity on the internet, so it could also just be the normal ebb and flow. I was a member of MagicTalk which for some time was the biggest magic related forum on the internet but that ran its course as well and now has already been gone for a couple of years. I guess now the Magic Cafe is the place to be, forum-wise.
That said, MVD still is a great concept with potential and there's no reason why it couldn't continue and have success. Whether the answer is getting someone to run it who's more involved or getting some more of the old members back posting, time will tell. The video side is still active so there are people on the site. Getting them to post in the forums would certainly help.
GL
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tapmagoo
Conjuror
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Posted: 07-07-2009 22:02 |
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Yes, the videos keep coming. Have you noticed the patter more some say that their video is for the tube and here? Some are treating this site as a twin site to the tube and are surprised to get HONEST feedback, which they weren't prepared to handle.
I never got cussed out for any of my comments until the last 6 months, which I have had the honor of having quite a few sour words thrown my direction. I have had misunderstandings before the past six months that were ironed out in adult, respectful, and positive manners. The faceless, voiceless, body language-less format we have makes those types of misunderstandings inevitable...it's how you handle them.
Sponge, bless his heart, still acts like the kid who wants to make everything better in an dysfunctional (alcoholic, for example) home. He doesn't appear to have a cross bone in his body.
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dave0585
Magician
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Posted: 07-08-2009 00:46 |
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Ha, yes I agree. Some little bugger just the other day threw a paddy because he never liked the (I think) extremely friendly advice I gave him.
However, at least the videos do keep coming! I personally think one of the reasons people treat MVD like a second tube is because a few years ago when I came on here the quality of uploaded magic was very high, and in a way was a very intimidating for me to upload my massivly amazing charlier and others cuts video (Which was in fact pants, and I never uploaded it). But now aparently there are a lot of quite frankly (Insert favorite bad word here) videos, some even exposing magic through horifically poor performances. Didn't the uploads used to be checked for poor performance? Or am I thinking of somewhere else?
I think the drawing aspect of this site is the videos and the competitions (may be a personal prefrence). I know that if I want a lively chat about magic in a forum to go to Magic cafe. But I think the general thing that made the community which used to be here were the videos, comments on the videos and competitions, and forum chats about tricks, perfomances in a video. I asked around some magician friends and they have never heard of the site and seemed very interested and will hopefully sign up and upload, so I am not sure it's a problem of people moving on or the site has outlived itself. I think it's a lack of a lot of things mainly awareness, advertising, and interest from old members because nothing new happens.
Maybe we could do something about drawing people in ourselves. I have a sealed copy of Richard fergusons - tagged I don't need. Maybe we could make a competition for it or something, Or create a youtube page with links to the site showcasing the best uploaded videos?!?!?
Out of interest, where have people moved on to?
Dave
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Paulo
Marvel
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Posted: 07-08-2009 08:44 |
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But now aparently there are a lot of quite frankly (Insert favorite bad word here) videos, some even exposing magic through horifically poor performances. Didn't the uploads used to be checked for poor performance? Or am I thinking of somewhere else?
Yes, that was here. It used to be that videos were uploaded to a queue where Aramis, Sponge, myself and some others would review them, then add them if we thought they were appropriate. When the "new" site was created, I lost that ability to do that, and other functions that I used to have access to (and I am assuming that others did as well). I seem to recall being told by Andrew that he would take care of the adding of videos (or that the part of the control panel where the functions were was being worked on).
My guess would be that the adding of videos is now entirely automated, the videos are not viewed, or if they are viewed the standards are no longer there (I remember spending hours here sending PMs and "talking" to members describing why their video would not be added; so did Sponge, Aramis, and others - so I can't see how it is being done effectively by one person now). In the end, if they are viewed before being added then I agree, there is an awful lot of what I would also consider exposure being uploaded here. But given that the link to the mastermentalism.com site has been on the front page here for so long, I don't think the owner of the site really cares about that.
On another note: many people - including myself - have provided suggestions to get the forum back in shape (a basic search function that works, re-upping all of the supposed archived threads, etc.), but as Tyler has pointed out numerous times (my T, but you are tenacious), most people can only be ignored for so long before they give up; the suggestions and ideas have been mostly ignored.
I would link to all the threads containing these suggestions, but really, what would be the point.
When the new site was created, I was originally excited. Now I am reminded of the old saying about too many irons in the fire. So many great ideas and promises, but no one thing ever really blossoms.
Dave, all of your suggestions are great. Do I think anyone with the powers to effect those changes will do so? Unfortunately no.
I am going to make one more attempt at forum revival, by starting some threads in the next week or so. That is all I can do, but it maybe a start.
Cheers all.
Paul
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Sponge
Marvel
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Posted: 07-08-2009 20:37 |
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When we first moved to the new site in February 2007, SiteAdmin asked me if I would help him upload the videos until such time as a Video control panel was created for all the staff. I agreed to help out as a temporary measure and was told it would be for approx. 3-4 months. 17 months on and we the staff, that is Aramis, Paulo and myself, are still waiting for this Video control panel to be created. The video uploading has been done by SiteAdmin and myself until April this year, since then it has been done by SiteAdmin alone.
In April this year I told SiteAdmin I was "outta here" after he used my account to create several new groups for the new Group feature without my knowledge or consent. This however wasn't the only reason, just the last straw.
I was also growing weary of waiting for the promised video upload panel so that all the staff could review and upload videos. The lack of communication and secrecy over this has been divisive and isolating and led to a lot of confusion. I was being asked to keep quiet and I didn't like it. It is a simple matter to change a members status from Member to Admin, this could have been done for Aramis and Paulo with one mouse click, the same as it was for me, and we would all be able to review and upload videos. SiteAdmin must have his own reasons for not doing this but he never shared them, whenever I raised the subject on many occasions I was told he would bear it in mind, but nothing ever happened.
SiteAdmin also asked that when I was featuring videos that those submitted by one particular member were not featured, the reason given was that they didn't go with the image he wanted for MVD. I was upset by this, especially considering that member is a regular contributor to MVD and respects the rules on video uploads.
I no longer have Video control access, since April this has been done by SiteAdmin alone; Aramis, Paulo and myself have forum moderation access only. We do not have access to moderate video comments, approve videos or feature them.
The videos are (should be) reviewed before upload, when a video is deleted from the queue for whatever reason, or indeed when a member deletes their own video from the site, an automated email is sent to them. This email tells them that their video has been deleted "because it contains copyrighted music", regardless of the actual reason for the deletion, and asks them to contact SiteAdmin.
When I deleted a video from the queue I would additionally pm the member to explain why, eg: copyrighted audio, accidental exposure, video tutorials not accepted etc. For the most part people accepted those explanations but there were occasions when people would pm SiteAdmin to say that music was not copyrighted, my decisions were overridden by him each time and the original videos were resubmitted and approved, complete with exposure, well known music etc.
I noticed very recently a video tutorial of some Chris Kenner moves has been uploaded and approved, a member has actually objected in the comments but the video still remains on the site. There are numerous videos containing well known copyrighted music.
Maybe the rules on exposure and copyright have been removed, I don't know; the staff certainly haven't been informed if they have, though this is academic as we now have no input in that area.
Dave, you mention that you would like to see help given with technical aspects of MVD. I have made numerous posts helping members with such things but when I went to look for them after reading your post I am unable to find them any more. It appears they have been deleted and I am at a loss to understand why.
Many objections have been raised in these forums and in the staff forums too, about the way MVD is deteriorating. They have been largely ignored, in most cases barely acknowledged, by SiteAdmin. Suggestions have been made, help has been offered but all met with a wall of silence.
SiteAdmin, the members and staff on MVD all visit and help out voluntarily, we deserve to be treated better than this by you. We are not (magic) mushrooms to be kept in the dark and fed on sh*t. You have stopped communicating with us, we are no longer able to communicate with each other by pm as that feature is no longer available to us. I don't know if you are taking any of this on board or if you are just sitting with your fingers in your ears singing "La la la, I'm not listening" hoping we will eventually stop trying to communicate with you.
Tapmagoo, you've just reminded me, I've been meaning to read Animal Farm again. I'm off to see if I can work out which character I am 
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tapmagoo
Conjuror
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Posted: 07-08-2009 21:40 |
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Sponge,
It's been more than 30 years since I read Animal Farm. If I remember, there is a chicken that gets its head chopped off; let me know if that is the character you most identify with after you peruse the tome.
Tapmagoo
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Jamiekurtz1964
Magician
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Posted: 07-09-2009 04:37 |
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I have finally come back after seemingly several years and I am hoping that this site is revived. Personally, I am in process of removing all of my videos from the web but would like to have a place to post and get feedback. I live in a very small town and have very little interaction with other magicians.( I kind of like it however)...I have been in magic for going on 40 years and I do appreciate the ability to witness other people's technique and handlings. I think video offers allot that other means of communication cannot convey.
I agree with the ideas to revive the site but I would like to emphasize the need for a video forum that ONLY allows magicians with considerable experience to access.
The reason for the nazi-esque approach would be to motivate the "sleeping magi" to come forth again without the fear of exposure or theft. I also think that it would be a good idea to not allow comments until a poster has proven themselves as competent magicians.
I know it sounds horrid but secrecy needs to come back to the craft. For magic to flourish once again, we need to relive the days of Daley, Carlyle, Vernon and Miller...
Just a random thought...
JK
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wcmagician
Conjuror
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Posted: 07-10-2009 02:47 |
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Wow. Much has changed since last time I logged on here! Hoping everything will be back to normal gents! I'm staying though! And some other friends who are members of this site, i'll try to get them to come back and be more active too!
-W/C
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TylerErickson
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Posted: 07-10-2009 12:56 |
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Paulo wrote:
(my T, but you are tenacious)
Maybe its because I wrote the greatest and best post in the world. (But this is just a tribute.)
T
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Paulo
Marvel
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Posted: 07-10-2009 17:15 |
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TylerErickson
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Posted: 07-10-2009 20:11 |
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Hey Paulo,
Since you appear to be online, check out the grassroots thread and see if you are interested in connecting. 
T
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