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cardchicanery
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Posted: 12-29-2008 09:28 |
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http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/28278904#28278904
This clip was posted on another website a few days ago. The members of the other site where divided fairly equally on their opinions. What do you think?
G
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Derob
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Posted: 12-29-2008 11:53 |
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Looks entertaining.
Although I doubt that Houdin was Houdini's grandfather 
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GlennLawrence
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Posted: 12-29-2008 15:42 |
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Josh is a little goofy but there's no doubt he's a great magician and a real nice guy. I found the clip entertaining. What do you mean opinions were divided on this other site you mentioned? I didn't see anything too controversial here.
GL
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cardchicanery
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Posted: 12-29-2008 16:58 |
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There where some who believed that josh didnt do very well. I personaly feel the hostesses didnt act very profesonaly. especially the blonde one who was trying to expose him (magically)
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Sponge
Marvel
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Posted: 12-29-2008 20:57 |
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I don't understand why he was plugging his complete course in magic on television to a lay audience.
The other thing that struck me was how uncomfortable those two presenters looked perched on high stools in short skirts.
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Aramis
Illusionist
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Posted: 12-29-2008 23:48 |
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I liked it. Good choice of effect, well presented. Joshua Jay has so much charisma.
It seems a lot of these hosts are not particularly polite. The people at the "Plus grand cabaret du monde" are atrocious like that too. I think it has something to do with ego. They don't want to appear dumb.
On the other hand she did catch him on the ditch, which should not have happened. I think if I were to perform on a talk show like that I'd make sure to have a talk with the hosts ahead of time about this sort of thing. I mean they want to show their audience some magic, but then try to shatter the illusion before it can happen. That makes no sense to me.
I don't see why it's a problem that he plugs his book.
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Paulo
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Posted: 12-30-2008 00:17 |
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FWIW,
Years ago I was performing a card trick for some high school students and did not cover my angles very well (or chose to do something I shouldn't have in that particular environment).
One of my students said something to the effect of "you just had a card in your hand" (I was gambler's copping a dirty card back to the deck), and I replied something in the neighborhood of "well don't ruin it for other people" with a smile.
His response? It was bang on:
He laughed and said "Well you shouldn't have let me see it".
He was right.
My first reaction when I watched that clip was that it was not her fault that she busted him (though both of the interviewers couldn't seem to be quiet for more than about 2 seconds which was incredibly annoying)...it was his. I thought it was odd that he chose to do a trick that requires such a clean up (and be left with a dirty deck to boot).
I seem to recall David Roth appearing on Letterman and doing some coin work sans gaffs for that very reason.
I know, I know...hindsight is 20-20. But forethought is 20-10.
Paul
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Sponge
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Posted: 12-30-2008 00:23 |
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| No, not a problem, but I don't recall seeing a magician doing that on tv this side of the pond. It just seemed strange (to me) to see a magician advertising the existence of books on magic to the general public.
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cosmicplay
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Posted: 12-30-2008 14:45 |
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Sponge wrote: No, not a problem, but I don't recall seeing a magician doing that on tv this side of the pond. It just seemed strange (to me) to see a magician advertising the existence of books on magic to the general public.
I agree with that. The magic community gets a shock when a guy with a mask tells secrets from existing effects (obviously not his own) on tv. But what is the difference with a guy publishing a book to the public? It looks like the same sort of exposure to me. Unless the book only contains his own moves and effects, in which case he does whatever he wants.
Last edited on 12-30-2008 15:01 by cosmicplay
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cosmicplay
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Posted: 12-30-2008 15:00 |
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cardchicanery wrote: There where some who believed that josh didnt do very well. I personaly feel the hostesses didnt act very profesonaly. especially the blonde one who was trying to expose him (magically)
Honestly, I think they were just regular laypeople. This is the sort of people we see all the time when we go out and perform. The questions they ask were very standard "it's up the sleeves! Where did you learn that..." and so on. I am actually glad we can see a big name in magic perform for laypeople (and not for special actors acting surprised as in L&L or the Stone dvds). This is just them in the real world. Now you can see how they really are.
Honestly, for a big name in magic I would expect a little more. The atmosphere wasn't particularly magical and the way he dealt with the challenges seemed very basic.
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GlennLawrence
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Posted: 12-30-2008 15:38 |
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Cosmicplay, the difference between the masked moron and someone publishing a magic book is this: The tv exposure show is exposing simply for exposure's sake. They are not teaching you the effects so that you can go out and perform them. It is merely to satisfy curiosity and nothing more. People who spend money and make an effort to buy the book are going to learn magic that they actually can perform for others. It is doubtful that many will buy the book just to learn secrets for no reason. And this is certainly not the first magic book that has been targeted toward the general public. Magic for Dummies and Mac King's recent book are but 2 well known examples.
As an aside, why does Valentino even bother to wear the mask anymore? He was outed years ago. It looks like a pro wrestler doing magic. I guess when you're a hack whose Vegas Act was one of the cheesiest bird acts I've ever seen, this is what you have to resort to.
GL
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Derob
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Posted: 12-30-2008 17:58 |
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| I actually thought it was rather fun to see a professional having trouble with his audience. It shows that none of us can ever be completely at ease, not even the bigger names. It makes them more human.
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cosmicplay
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Posted: 12-30-2008 18:57 |
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GlennLawrence wrote: Cosmicplay, the difference between the masked moron and someone publishing a magic book is this: The tv exposure show is exposing simply for exposure's sake. They are not teaching you the effects so that you can go out and perform them. It is merely to satisfy curiosity and nothing more.
Well, the real motivation behind both the masked magician and a book revealing secrets to the public is one and the same: money. The outcome is the same: making fundamental magic secrets easily available to the greater public. In fact, just telling people there is a book out there revealing the secrets is exposure in itself. It tells that magic is based on methods.... trickery you can read in a book.
Just personally I think if someone really wants to learn magic it should happen as it used to. Back in the 80s when I started learning magic, the knowledge could not be found in a book you bought from a local bookshop. You had to make a lot of effort to get to anything. It was something exclusive. In fact it is only when I became member of a magician's club that I could have access to any publication telling something like a double lift. I do not know precisely what Joshua Jay has written in his book. I trust it that he has been wise about what he is giving away.
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GlennLawrence
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Posted: 12-31-2008 15:51 |
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Cosmicplay, I am with you in your lament of the current easy access to secrets. I too wish for the old days where you really had to make the effort. But I'm afraid wishing in this case will not make it so. In the age of exposure sites and tv shows, and internet magic dealers where you can buy magic as instant downloads, those times are but a pleasant memory. We must deal with the here and now. My suggestion is simple. Just don't perform anything you see Angel or Blaine do, since it seems most of the exposure sites/tv shows focus on their particular brand of magic. We all know there is plenty of great magic out there that has not been exposed and that the public would love to see. All you can do is take pride in the magic you do and make it the best it can be. As it is often said, more magic has been exposed by bad magicians than by all these exposure shows and sites combined!
As to motivation, yes Josh Jay & the masked fool are both motivated by money, but there's certainly more to it than that. The exposure show is only interested in the cheap and easy way to make a quick buck with no regard for ethics. I can tell you for sure since I just read a big article about it in MAGIC magazine that Josh put a lot of effort and work into this book to make it a quality product. As a matter of fact his editor (who is not a magician) actually took it upon herself to learn EVERY effect in the book to make sure that these were tricks that the lay public could learn and perform. So I'm guessing not a lot of knuckle busters in there. But you still have to make the effort and spend the money to buy the book, so I'd rather have someone go that route instead of going to some internet exposure site thinking that's going to teach them to be a magician. As far as telling people that there is a method that can be read about in books, I'm pretty sure they already knew that. Even in the good old days you could get magic books in the library and in general bookstores. Many effects I still do came from these sources. And I haven't met too many people that think magicians have some kind of supernatural power!
GL
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cosmicplay
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Posted: 12-31-2008 17:08 |
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GlennLawrence wrote:
EVERY effect in the book to make sure that these were tricks that the lay public could learn and perform. So I'm guessing not a lot of knuckle busters in there. But you still have to make the effort and spend the money to buy the book
Glenn, Are you saying that the professional magician should only do knuckle busters? Some of my best effects are pretty self working actually. And I don't consider a double lift a knuckle buster, though it is a fundamental move in card magic. I just hope my laypeople won't have read his book!
And buying a book in a bookshop doesn't take effort at all. In the past people had to do real effort to learn any fundamental moves.
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